Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

  1. #1

    Post PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    This material was presented to the developers and numerous fans of the PES series (on Twitter). It is important for us that developers found useful material in the article and use it in the development of the game! It would be the best reward for our work! We urge those who agree with the statements of the article, not to remain indifferent and to let the developers know about it! We are proud that we do everything that depends on us in order to popularize the game. In this article we’ve dwelt only on the gameplay, we’ve indicated its possible shortcomings and made suggestions for its improvement. This is not our first article, which we address to the developers, and not the last. Enjoy reading!



    Dear developers! We kindly ask you to take your precious time and read this article! We all realize that release of PES 2016 is coming soon, so this material is more likely to be relevant to the release of the official patches for PES 2016 and the development of PES 2017. If something from the list below will be fixed before PES 2016 release - we will be happy!
    This article is based on analysis of gameplay video from E3, comparrison between real football and PES 2016 and other materials. All notes are given only on gameplay. We are aware that we can be wrong at some point. But who makes no mistakes makes nothing, isn’t it ?! Even if only 50 from the following 200 items are helpful, we will be glad! Items can be repeated, but this only means that you have to pay attention on them! Please draw your attention to the fact that every year we analyze the pre-release video and then play the game. And there are a lot of fans who do the same things and not only in Russia! Considering this we believe that we can judge the gameplay by video. Of course we can’t judge such thing as feedback, because we did not play the game. But we can’t remain silent about some aspects of gameplay! We have to admit that our opinion on gameplay largely coincides with the opinion of the foreign fans. Isn’t it an indication of the fact that you should pay attention to some things of the gameplay?
    We want you to understand one simple thing – when we point out the flaws of the gameplay (in this article), we're not trying to blame you! Nothing is perfect in the world! There’s always something to aspire! This also concerns the gameplay of our game! We just want to help you and inform you that the gameplay has always been the dignity of PES series, and it would be foolish to stop its evolution! And it would be nice to know what we are doing is not in vain! On this cheerful note, we invite you to plunge into the article! Let us know if our article was very helpful to you! Thank you for understanding! Enjoy reading!



    It is not a secret that many fans want to be involved in the development process of their favorite game!

    Contents
    ● Introduction, appeal to developers
    ● An overview of PES 2016 gameplay shortcomings, based on reviews of playtesters at E3
    ● Disadvantages of PES 2016 gameplay in comparison with Copa America finals!
    ● Direct appeal of multimillion army fans to the developers
    ● Our review of the shortcomings of PES 2016 gameplay (including the flaws of PES gameplay occuring from year to year)
    ● The opinions of fans from around the world!
    ● Why do the fans love the gameplay of the retro-versions of the game??
    ● What are the features of FIFA gameplay?
    ● What worth borrowing from Football Manager?
    ● Innovative suggestions for the PES 2017 gameplay
    ● Epilogue
    ● Conclusion, appeal to developers


    Introduction, appeal to developers
    Dear developers!
    We understand that you are faced with a huge number of pitfalls that are not always possible to get around when you develop a game. Some of previous features are ejected because of new ones, some features you actually can’t implement, and some of them implemented fairly. But fans want all at once. We want you to know, that this article is written to give you an idea of what kind of gameplay we want to see! We have no right to demand something. We are just consumers as you think. But it is not so. Many of the fans are devoted to the series and some of them would like to join your team, to make our favorite game even better! We really appreciate that you release the game annually and don’t give up despite numerous negative reviews, and not so massive sales in some regions!
    We have to admit that PES is very popular among the real football fans in Russia. We appreciate the fact that the gameplay is always in the foreground of the game. The first sites of PES series in Russia were founded in 2003/2004. At the moment Russia has more than 10 major sites of the PES. They are - peswe.com (it was the first site about PES series in Russia), peskomment.ru, pesonline.com.ua, pes-zone.ru, pes-files.ru, 11x11.pesmanager.net, pes-club.com, pescups.ru, pesmanager.net, 15.pes-club.ru, pesgame.net, ultpes.ru and others! Not all of them are very active today, but believe us - they have done a lot to popularise Pro Evolution Soccer series in Russia! Our community Pro Evolution Soccer Russia (vk.com/evopes) was created in the largest social network Vkontakte in 2007. Considering this, we would like the developers to devote more time to the feedback from the fans. We are ready to help you, and to collect the necessary information. And this article is a visual confirmation of this.



    There are a lot of positive and negative feelings every year after the game is released.

    An overview of PES 2016 gameplay shortcomings, based on reviews of playtesters at E3
    This is the case when a number of reviews are close to a number of spotted flaws of the gameplay. This is good news, but..We really hope list of bugs or flaws of the gameplay and other shortcomings playtesters handed to developers directly without advertising the shortcomings of the gameplay to the public. Otherwise, PES 2016 could be considered as a contender for Game of the year award.

    The following materials were used while writing this section:
    'Pro Evolution Soccer 2016' is worth playing over 'FIFA', engadget.com
    PES 2016 Is ‘Going For A Triple-A Title This Year’, attackofthefanboy.com
    PES 2016 Preview – Even Better Than Last Year, godisageek.com
    E3 2015: PES 2016 - Standing on the Shoulders of Last Year’s Giant, uk.ign.com
    Refined Gameplay and Improved Graphics Give ‘PES 2016’ a Bit of an Edge Over ‘FIFA 16’, masterherald.com
    PES 2016 Preview - E3 2015, newgamenetwork.com
    E3 2015: Pro Evolution Soccer 2016 Hands-On Impressions, popzara.com
    E3 2015 preview, trustedreviews.com
    PES 2016: a generational leap for football games, videogamer.com
    Pro Evolution Soccer 2016 Hands-On Preview [E3 2015], wegotthiscovered.com
    Winning Eleven Blog – E3 Preview, winningelevenblog.com
    Worth Playing – Pro Evolution Soccer 2016, worthplaying.com
    E3 2015: PES 2016 Hands-on Preview – Reliving Past Glories, xboxachievements.com

    ● Slide tackles, although nowhere near as bad as they have been in years gone by, still don't feel quite right with regards to timing and were the reason I ended up giving away a penalty. (godisageek.com)
    ● Defensive AI has been tightened too, with players closing in on the opposition with more determination, especially if you hold down X to pressure whomever has the ball. It's not a guarantee you'll make the tackle – precise timing is still required to steal possession. (uk.ign.com)
    ● There are some issues to iron out: finesse shooting is weak, and some defender movement when fronting up attackers can be a little crab-like. (videogamer.com)
    ● While PES 2016 is looking like it could be another sensational football game, there were some problems we encountered during the several matches we played. First of all, AI players seem reluctant to make runs into space on attack, making cutting a forward through ball past your opponent's defence and on goal incredibly difficult. It's possible, and when it does come off, it's a moment of air-punching triumph, but when those other 90 percent of attempts fail, it can be frustrating. (xboxachievements.com)
    ● On more than one occasion, we also found a player in prime position to score, only for the nearby AI to remain riveted to the spot, as we desperately tried to hit the player select button and get the ball into the net. By the time we'd assumed control, the defence had shut the attack down, and the opportunity was long gone. We're sure this kind of thing will be rare in the full version of PES 2016, but at present, it's something of an annoyance. (xboxachievements.com)
    ● A few other issues/concerns include the R2 shooting that is horribly underpowered and the rubbish penalty system. Not even joking, it's horrid. The penalty systems is so random, it makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, that should not be the case. Yeah, that should not be the case. Having not played any of the modes, those would be my main points of feedback at the moment. (winningelevenblog.com)
    ● I did feel playing against the AI needed to feel a bit more realistic and varied, but player and team stats are still being worked on at the moment so that might be me being too harsh and jumping the gun a little. (winningelevenblog.com)
    Other flaws:
    ● Unfortunately, Pro Evolution Soccer couldn't keep up with EA's perpetual resources, starting with the exclusive licensing deals for major leagues from across the world. (engadget.com)



    Yes, we can't judge the game without playing it. But we can compare PES gameplay with real football TV- broadcasting.

    Disadvantages of PES 2016 gameplay in comparison with Copa America finals
    We probably can't objectively judge the game without playing it. But we can compare the coverage of the PES match with the broadcast of a real match watching them at the same time! PES should look like a real match, isn’t it ?! So what are the disadvantages of PES 2016 gameplay which strike the eye while watching a real match?! Read about it futher! Please take note of this material when release the official patches for PES 2016, as well as in the development of PES 2017.

    The following materials were used while writing this section
    Stage Demo: PES 2016 - E3 2015, GameSpot: https://youtu.be/b9xkQ5M5yM8
    PES 2016 New PS4 Gameplay, PlayStation Access: https://youtu.be/LW0cX5_heUg
    Chile vs Argentina 0-0 (4-1) 1ST HALF TIME, COPA AMERICA FINAL 2015: https://youtu.be/R7d5-Fm4-Hg

    ● The goalkeepers. They easily secure the ball after cannon shots! They have slow reflexes! Goalkeepers slowly jump for the ball, their movements are often inert! Clumsy actions of the keepers (even with the ball in their hands)! Silly actions of goalkeepers when rushing out: the goalkeeper runs for the ball on a strange, wrong direction, when offensive player breaks in for the goal at the angle. In real football they are more agile (in particular, when rushing out). Sometimes players regroup too quickly.
    For example. GameSpot - 91:10, 92:40 (Match time)


    ● The movement of the players. When the whistle blows, a crazy mess starts on the field. There is not an organic team or individual movement. There is a lot of fuss and unnecessary moves in the players’ actions. The players move too quickly across the field.
    ● The pace of the game. There are much more speed rates than two. As a consequence pace of the game looks monotonous.
    ● Fatigue. Fatigue affects only running ability of players. An exhausted player in a real match may make a bad pass, bad tackle, bad shot.
    ● The actions of the players. Sometimes players behave very passively, act with lack of initiative.Sometimes they just pretend they fight for the ball.


    ● The density of the game/positioning. Attacking players are constantly open. The defenders don't mark offensive players well. Forwards easily receive the ball and turn around. Huge spaces in midfield. No compactness and density of the game. The positional attacks have no sense.
    Whom does the German left defender mark? Why is there only one German defender against two Brazilians?


    Attacking players in midfield are always open.


    Brazilian midfielders jogging back. They don’t help their defense.


    Germany attacks to the left. There are free zones in midfield; it’s not clear where the halfbacks are.


    Where is the density? Where are the halfbacks? Do we play arcade or simulator?


    German national Team tries to make the artificial strike judging by the actions of the defenders, two strikers Brazil ran to the gate actively interfering with each other more than the defenders of the German national team. Goalkeeper behaves completely passive and unrealistic. But as soon as the ball flies into the goal, everything seems to be changing. Appears smooth and realistic movements of the players. Goalkeeper as though I just crawled out of the TV. General impression that this is generally a different engine. But the subsequent play the ball with the midfield players will return to the usual twitching and confusion. On the replay, by the way, clearly shows that Germany midfielder just got dead center field!


    Players’ positioning is different in real football. See the image below.






    PES 6


    ● Shots. The maximum power of shots and passes is too high. They are very fast. Shots are very precise.
    For example. PlayStation Access, 1st match - 19:00


    ● Ball physics. It’s too easy for players to take the ball under control after strong pass. The ball behaves very predictably; it bounces at a convenient distance. There are almost no mistakes while dribbling (as well as while making feints).
    For example. PlayStation Access, 1st match - 47:05, 71:50
    ● Fouls. No aerial fouls; no handling, missing some other violations of the rules, there is no complete fair play. Even the slightest impact in the box is a clear foul, while outside the box the situation is opposite. In real football the referees are more careful with the penalty kicks, even if it was a contact. In PES 3 the referee had assessed the degree of violation of the rules!


    ● Team. There is no verbal interaction between players on the field, there is no team spirit, the spirit of competition. Each player acts by himself. Small amount of emotions (except of the emotions that are in the cutscenes).
    ● The stands. No applause for successful actions!
    ● Broadcasting. Very few close-ups during the match. In addition, there are only key episodes on the replay (such episodes as dramatic dribble, hitting the post and a number of other situations are not shown). There is no complete interactive environment around the field (warming-up players, ballboys, etc.). As a consequence the broadcast of the match looks glued (with black screens and freezing frames). This leads to the loss of atmosphere and pace of the game! Slow playback speed of the replays. The slow-mo effect should be used only in the key moments of the episode.


    ● Important point. Teams don't try to use intentionally the strengths of some of their players, such as advantages in height, speed, and so on.


    To be continued.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PES Russia For This Useful Post:


  3. #2

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]


    Fans of the game are not ordinary consumers or game reviewers! They are people who criticize the game because they want to make the game as best as possible. They are people who care about the future of the game!

    Direct appeal of multimillion army fans to the developers
    We don't need a template cutscenes. We don't need AI that makes no mistakes. We don't need fast pace of the game which obtained by constantly sprinting footballers. We don't need fatigue that means nothing. We don’t need the skills of players that mean nothing. We don't need AI that plays by the script and not on the situation. We don't need weak tackling attempts. We don't need super powerful shots and passes. We don't want the ball that is glued to the leading leg of the players, the ball that rolling across the field like a ping pong ball. We don't need feints with no mistakes. Atmosphere on the stadium is far more important than graphics. We don’t need intermittent gameplay that knock down the pace of the game and return players on default positions after each pause. We don't need inert goalies, which often act in their own time dimension. We don't need high precision (Futsal) dribbling using R2 and crazy dangerous shots using R2. We don't need scripted, terrible free kicks. We don't need an AI that artificially creates the scenario for the game. We don't need goalkeepers which jump for the ball not even fully straightening their arms. We don't need a delayed response in control that knocks down the pace of the game. We don't need multiple load screens that make us tired. We are not interested in playing against AI-team, which has a coach for the sake of appearance.

    All of these and many other questions are written below. Everything is spelt out.
    But before that we would like to ask some questions that are really important for the fans, and we would like to get correct answers! All the questions are below! Thank you in advance for the answers!
    1. Why the fans’ favourite features disappear from the game and then reappear in next parts of the series? Why don't you go the way of EA, who don’t waste their experience?
    2. Why don't you create an official game forum for feedback from the fans?
    3. Why the PC version differs from the nextgen consoles version?
    4. Are there enough capabilities of this engine to create a seamless gameplay (with no black screens and freezes)?
    5. Why don't you create fake leagues of other countries, such as Germany, Russia, Turkey, Holland and others? EA has exclusive EPL rights, but the league is in your game!
    6. Why don't you co-operate with PESEdit team to resolve the issue with the unauthorized leagues in different countries? They are so good at patch-making that fans thought that PESEdit team acted in conjunction with developers.
    7. Do you co-operate with real coaches to make game plan menu?
    8. You signed a several years contract for possession of European tournaments rights. Does this mean that the Pro Evolution Soccer series is not going to derail, as happened with the Silent Hill series?
    9. Why the online gameplay is such non-optimized?
    10. Do you check the PES fan forums with all that useful and interesting ideas for the development of PES? Probably not. That's why we collected all the information here for your convenience. The article presents the opinions and wishes of thousands of PES fans from around the world! We really hope that the article will be very helpful to you, and you take this information into account in the development of the official patches for PES 2016, as well as in the development of PES 2017!


    We don't claim that we're right at all points. The article is written in order to inform you about all POSSIBLE shortcomings. And it’s up to you what.

    Our review of the shortcomings of gameplay PES 2016 (including the flaws of PES gameplay occuring from year to year)
    In this section we have collected all those moments of PES 2016 gameplay video that raise concern. How could you judge the game by the video, you think. You know, it's like an evaluation of a movie on the expanded pre-release trailer, knowing the story (last year's edition of the game), director (game developers) and actors (the possibility of AI). If the game was perfect, there wouldn’t be this article. Every year official patches that change the gameplay for the better appear after the release of the game. So, nothing is perfect and there is always something to strive for. In addition, many disadvantages are repeated from year to year. We just want to contribute to the improvement of PES 2016 gameplay and to express our opinion. It’s up to you to decide what items of our list should be worked on. We repeat – we can be wrong in some things judging the game by the video. But if something is right, please take it into account.

    The following materials were used while writing this section:
    Stage Demo: PES 2016 - E3 2015, GameSpot: youtu.be/b9xkQ5M5yM8
    PES 2016 New PS4 Gameplay, PlayStation Access: youtu.be/LW0cX5_heUg
    Chile vs Argentina 0-0 (4-1) 1ST HALF TIME, COPA AMERICA FINAL 2015: youtu.be/R7d5-Fm4-Hg

    ● Goalkeepers. Goalkeepers easily secure the ball after cannon shots, not even twitching. They try to jump into the corner very slowly after a shot. We can see it after almost every accurate shot. We know whether it will be a goal or not before a shot. The game becomes like “get the ball to the box and strike it into the far corner”.


    ● Confused players. Players very often freeze up and fall out from the game (particularly after collisions), as if they are "rebooting". Players have delayed reaction on the incident. Sometimes players by inertia mistakenly continue moving. When you switch the cursor on the moving player, he stands still for a split second. When you take a player completely under control and activate super-cancel the player loses speed, it shouldn’t be so!
    For example. PlayStation Access, 1st match -29:20


    ● Shots. Shots have high precision, players adjust to the ball on-the-fly (when using R2).
    ● Ball physics. The players easily take the ball under control (especially after strong passes). The ball is automatically bound to the leading leg of the player after receiving the ball. The ball and the player move as one. Actually there are almost no mistakes while dribbling
    For example. PlayStation Access, 1st match - 12:27, 25:45; PlayStation Access 2nd match - 75:40; GameSpot - 36:00, 52:00, 80:30, 81:05 82:50
    PES 2014 vs PES 2015 - Ball Physics after low passing: https://youtu.be/H11Hr_BlEJs

    ● Dribbling/ball reception. High precision dribbling when using R2. Sometimes passes are very strong, while the players handle them very easily. Feints are scripted - there are no mistakes while dribbling. Even rushing at high speed PES player can perform difficult feints.
    ● Animation. A lot of FUSS and unnecessary moves in players actions. As a consequence twitch, jerky and abrupt transitions between animations when you change the direction of motion. This strikes the eye especially during cutscenes, where the movements of players are steady. You can see the players slip (especially noticeable on replay during collisions). Terrible animation of goalies falling, terrible jumping. Sometimes animations of pass/shot does not match with the speed of pass/shot.
    For example. PlayStation Access 1st match – 55:30, 62:20, 66:40, 75:10, 83:40; PlayStation Access 2nd match – 16:10; GameSpot - 82:00.


    ● Scripts. Players act according to a prescribed scenario/script and often don't play on the situation. It is impossible to perform the next action until previous animation is not over! This is not normal, and you lose precious time and the pace of the game!
    ● Broadcasing. A sharp transition between gameplay and cutscene (cutscene actions after the freeze-frame are not a continuation of the episode). Lot of freeze frames. Often the ANGLES of the second part of replay are not significant. Wrong sequence of footage in cutscenes (especially when the goal scored).
    For example. PlayStation Access 1st match – 56:21; GameSpot - 2:17.


    ● The camera. Setting of game cameras are not flexible (no height adjustment and viewing angle without limitation).
    ● Ball physics/scripts. Ball physics is sloppy, the ball behaves like a ping pong. The ball is unbelievably fast and smooth after low crosses. The ball is automatically bound to the leading leg of the player after receiving the ball. The ball and the player move as one.
    For example. PlayStation Access 1st match – 21:40, 87:20; GameSpot - 36:00.
    PES 2014 vs PES 2015 - Ball Physics after low passing: https://youtu.be/H11Hr_BlEJs

    ● Dribbling.The use of RT\R2 (and not pressing RB\R1) turns almost any player in talented futsal player. The ball is magnetized to the leading leg of the players.
    ● Controls.R2 + Kick is a script, nothing to discuss. Players adjust to the ball using R2 on-the-fly, the R2 shots always dangerous. The speed of response of the game is lame when using the D-PAD and controlling back line. Players lose their positions on defence during the counterattacks.
    ● Defenders. Defenders create free zones and don’t properly mark strikers. Because of this offence organizes one-on-one situations. As a result, 80-90% of online goals are one-on-one goals.
    ● Free kicks. Very easy, scripted system of taking free kiсks and penalties. By the way this system was almost perfect in early parts of the game.
    ● Stamina. At that moment when the scale of stamina shows that the player is exhausted, this player will rush for the ball and has a chance to beat a defender. Players can accelerate on maximum speed forever! This is not normal! You need to make PES players to distribute footballers fatigue smarter and may be implement RPG elements!
    ● Bugs. The ball goes through the referee. Players’ bodies often pass through each other.
    For example. PlayStation Access 1st match - 78:25.






    ● Skills. It is unclear why the overall rating of a player suddenly drops sharply when you put him on unfamiliar position. The player takes the same passes and shots, he never loses speed and he’s still dangerous.




    If you (the developers) are not ready to receive feedback from the fans and look for the opinions and wishes on the PES fan forums, we are ready to help! It’s not a problem to collect all the required information. But it is important for us to know that all we do is not in vain.

    The opinion of fans from around the world on the PES gameplay!
    In this section, we selected the views of fans from around the world about the shortcomings of PES 2016 gameplay presented at E3! The opinion of fans who remain devoted to the series since its beginnings. There are many large fan sites on the PES, where people discuss your game on the forums! Opinion of huge amount of fans can be more useful than flattering words of game journalist. After all the criticism is the engine of evolution! Your fans are loyal to the game! Please respect their opinions, and contact more with them, and bring them to development of the game! Their recognition of the game - that's your best award and you should be proud of it! Please take note of this material when release official patches for PES 2016, as well as in the development of PES 2017.

    The following materials were used while writing this section
    PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread, evo-web.co.uk: evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=75108
    PES 2016 NEWS, DISCUSSION, VIDEO & SCREENS (Part 2), winningelevenblog.com: winningelevenblog.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23328&sid=2f4e408b727e65ee0553 89d70b03bf1f
    PES 2016: News, Rumours & Speculation, onlyproevolutions.com: forums.onlyproevolutions.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1597&start=15
    PES 2016: Novedades, Discusión, Vídeos e Imágenes, winningelevenblog.es: winningelevenblog.es/forums/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=23291&start=120
    Really annoying things that just need to be fixed https://forums.pesfan.com/showthread...ed-to-be-fixed
    Stage Demo: PES 2016 - E3 2015, GameSpot: youtu.be/b9xkQ5M5yM8
    PES 2016 New PS4 Gameplay, PlayStation Access: youtu.be/LW0cX5_heUg

    evo-web.co.uk
    ● So much open spaces in the defense.
    ● Players oblivious to the situation on the pitch.
    ● when they are sprinting and they have to make a pass it look so unnatural.
    ● AI: if you keep playing the same, they will figure it out and block that way of attacking.
    ● Still that same ground passing thing like in PES 2015.
    ● Why passes are so accurate regardless of stats is because players always seem to have perfect balance to hit them.
    ● Ping-pong passes being strung together (again). This is the reason why Stoke plays as good as Barcelona when keeping possession. passing accuracy for the CPU doesn't really exist in 2015 on higher levels if you set 'short pass' o every team, they will pass around like Barca with their center backs and midfield regardless of ability.
    ● Once you know the scripted behaviors of the AI, you can easily win 6-0, 5-0 against any team on Superstar.
    ● I lowered all players ratings to 40, including pass ratings of course. No difference whatsoever, the CPU still ping-ponged the ball around perfectly @ 90% plus. I tried the same experiment in PES 2014. Instant results. The new tactics options in PES 2015 made the AI completely ignore the players' stats.
    ● Passing has an unrealistically low trajectory and it's unrealistically fast and accurate.
    ● Would love to see them sort the sound and atmosphere too on this game.
    ● A realtime two tiered stamina/fatigue system.
    ● I hate over saturated colors but dull lifeless color palette of PES is also not real for me.
    ● The little battle for midfield and because of the high pressure.
    ● The game still seems to be very orientated towards receiving the ball, trapping it, turning 180 degrees and pegging it towards the goal.
    ● Passing and first touch were abit too perfect at times for all players.
    ● All 100 percent accurate and the ball never leaves the ground.
    ● I atleast have control over my player's stamina instead of a random timer decreasing every player's stamina over time.
    ● Defending: doesn't like is that right and left backs leave empty spaces when they are attacking.
    ● Yeah keepers need to react faster, its like they work on a different tempo compared to the other players.
    ● The way players sprint at full speed and yet they are able to perform a full stop in half a second . Without losing balance or anything.
    ● The option to combine different part of the kits like in pes5/we9.
    ● super rainbow flick also still in it.

    winningelevenblog.com
    ● AI they give you too much time on the ball.
    ● Pass > touch > ball comes to a full stop.
    ● The ball is not free, you can tell that most of the shots are telegraphed to go where the keeper is positioned just like 2015. Not good enough in that regard to me, not enough variation in trajectory, movement etc.
    ● The central defence looks bad as well, and you can still see that when an attacker gets through the midfield the ai switches off as if they have hit a glass wall and they just stop leaving the defence vulnerable.
    ● The turf/pitch looks much better, but still is not GREEN enough.
    ● Shooting animations are still terrible.
    ● KONAMI can make the defenders more aware and get rid of some hideous scripts (like when they delay the defender for a fraction just so the attacker gain advantage when a through ball is passed) and make the star player less "godlike" (I hate when Ronaldo can hit almost every shoot with incredible power and accuracy for 90 minutes)?
    ● Ball physics are not always good and seems on rails.
    ● The defence is still too static and widespread.
    ● It's just 1 pass and Totti is just facing the defense. The positioning of the defensive midfield seems to be wrong.
    ● Passing is so direct and seems on the rails. Shooting seems still bad. I must admit different types of shots (and bad shots) are represented in Fifa greatly (not the feel, but visually superb).
    ● All the keeper had to do to save it was stretch out his arm instead of this half stretch animation Konami use. Either the keeper has to make the save or the shot has to go more in the corner.
    ● Pass and receiving ball animations are poor.
    ● Shooting needs way more variety and keepers need to do full outstretched diving instead of the half assed stuff.
    ● Momentum/Bias and Scripting. It completely ruins the Online "Man to Man" Competition and makes it useless.
    ● In PES, once you get to the final third, it is too easy to find a way to attack, because the defense is too sparse and not organised.
    ● Diving so slowly and with arms half stretched. Everyone's been moaning for ages, it completely kills goals for me. Even in the videos I'm having to switch off after a goal, there's zero satisfaction in possibly the most important aspect.
    ● Ball physics. theyre too straight etc but I think the whole system needs an overhaul.
    ● The animation and ball trajectory for the R2 shot is still horrible 1 year later.

    onlyproevolutions.com
    ● When Tevez and Neymar were doing their flick n tricks, the ball sometimes looked glued to them as if the player and ball were "one" object.
    ● Find free kicks much more difficult to score though and even then the guide great. Would prefer it to be removed fully, the old system was far better.
    ● Penalty system still needs work, for both taker and goalkeeper.
    ● PK system is terrible and the animations on them are seriously bad.

    To be continued.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PES Russia For This Useful Post:


  5. #3

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    winningelevenblog.es
    ● También el manejo parece algo menos tosco aunque algunos giros me dan sensaciones raras, como que falta alguna animación intermedia o algo y no sé si será por eso que da la sensación de que a veces patinan.
    ● No salen bajo los palos, cuando salen (como en el ultimo gameplay) corren como pollo sin cabeza...
    ● Lo mismo pasa con los arbitros cuando pitan las faltas, se quedan quietos "in-game" y luego la cinematica te los muestra corriendo como locos a por ti para sacarte tarjeta.
    ● El año pasado FIFA aplico los recogepelotas, que dan una sensacion de juego ininterrumpido. El PES team dijo que su objetivo era tambien ese, que no haya cortes en las secuencias, pero vemos como este año no se ha trabajado nada en ese aspecto. Y no lo digo solo por la tonteria de los recogepelotas, es la ambientacion del estadio en general, no se ha tocado nada desde el año pasado.
    ● El balon cuando va por alto hace cosas rars como que parece que se frena en el aire, es un detalle que no me gusta.
    ● En tema de porteros es cierto que parece que se han quedado algo cojos, sigo viendo estiradas tardías y en algunas ocasiones, da la sensación que no son estiradas naturales ( por ejemplo, yo un balón que va al palo largo por abajo o por arriba, jamás le daría la animación al portero de estirarse con ambos brazos estirados, la dejaría con una animación de un brazo super estirado y el otro "libre por inercia".
    ● Parece ser que el disparo con el R2 sigue siendo bastante efectivo.
    ● Lo de la REACCION del portero es un verdadero problema.
    ● Reacciones en ciertos contextos con gravedad lunar, no interpretan bien en muchisimas ocasiones las salidas para achicar espacios en los 1vs1.
    ● Como negativo me parece una escapada del balón en donde se le queda atrás al jugador.

    pesfan.com
    ● Computer never gives away any free kicks there are very few stoppages in the game.
    ● The COM does not defend aggressively enough which makes the game too easy and also results in a total absence of real life situations. Have you ever seen COM get an outfield player sent off?
    ● Why is the default player never the full back? Full backs take throw ins.
    ● Corner Kicks: Why do full backs always come up for corners meaning that you cannot bring both CBs up or else there's nobody back?
    ● Opposition Goal Kicks: Why do my midfielders close down the other side's defenders from opposition goal kicks?
    ● COM Set Pieces: Why are they so bad? *It's a particularly sore point for me since in real life I remember being pulled over by a manager and told that I needed to work on my throw ins if I wanted to play left back - it ends up I could've been the next Maldini if I had been able to lump the ball into the box from 30 yards.
    ● CBs and low technical skilled players doing fancy back flick and through the leg passing.
    ● I'd also like more than 3 formation/tactics save slots.
    ● I've no respect for players that use PA4. It naturally speeds up the game and encourages pingponging.
    ● We just needed basic weather options.



    You managed to create that unique and variable gameplay, which is still unrivaled. We never knew what the outcome of an episode was. This was a simulator!

    Why do the fans love the gameplay of the retro-versions of the game?
    Many fans love the retro versions for their brilliant and unpredictable (and this is important!) gameplay! Dear developers, we kindly ask you not to bury your own ideas! The beauty of that gameplay was that the bodies of the players were given to the players, not to the script! Players acted on the situation, they were alive, human factor was seen! The ball was on its own, it wasn’t bounded to the leading leg of the players! Due to the physics of the ball and not scripted actions many fans still prefer those parts of the series! On the advantages of the PES 3-6 read below! Please take note of this material when develop PES 2017.
    The following materials were used while writing this section:
    Pro Evolution Soccer 3 gameplay
    Pro Evolution Soccer 4 gameplay
    Pro Evolution Soccer 5 gameplay
    Pro evolution Soccer 6 gameplay

    ● Defenders. Defenders perfectly covered the free zones.
    ● AI. AI was tougher and more aggressive. It was tenacious and covered free zones well. It often made fouls. It tried to beat a goalie not only by shot when 1 on 1. Human factor was seen, flaws in the AI actions. AI played on the episode, not on the script! AI was more active in the fight for the ball!
    ● Shot. The shots were more variable. There were often missed shots and sometimes ball even flew into the stands. Strikes often did not succeed. They were weak and not accurate because of the pressure of the defenders (the same applies to the passes and crosses).The shots had normal power and were sharper.
    ● Passes. AI made crosses.
    ● Ball physics. The ball were bouncing more naturally. In the current parts of the series it’s rolling as in footsal or billiards. Contact with the ball was more heavy.
    ● Goalkeepers. Goalkeepers acted more reliably, straightened hands completely! In the current parts of the series goalkeepers act as if they just pretend to make a save! Goalkeepers were more agile! There were mistakes of goalkeepers when securing the ball in difficult situations!
    ● Game plan/tactics. Tactics in retro versions were implemented compactly and intuitively. Also you could make assignments to players individually! You could decide how a player would open when you attack and how this or that player would get back on defense. Please return it in the series!
    ● Tackling. lot of active (!) pressure when tackling.
    ● Scripts. They attended to a lesser extent! As a consequence the outcome of episodes was unpredictable! Now it seems that the game is too scripted. There were not sense of déjà vu, as it is today! There were not such unpleasant things as unnecessary running for the ball, which is already impossible to catch up
    ● Players skills. We think that overall level should be removed and only the hexagons indicators left
    ● Cutscenes. There were more close-ups! Countless angles! It was so amazing and was delighted! There was not a sense of déjà vu, as it is today!
    ● Power bar. There was an opportunity to strengthen a shot pressing the kick button twice.
    ● Condition of players. Try to properly implement the system Heart from PES14. The condition of footballers should depend on the footballers successful or unsuccessful actions. This would make players to approach to the game more responsibly.
    ● Refereeing/fouls. In PES 3 the referee determined the degree of danger of a foul, and clearly differentiated them! There was handling (on offence).AI fouled more often. There were offensive fouls, intentional fouls by AI, off the ball fouls (in the fight for the position, for example). There was fair play.
    ● The mechanics of the game. The players and the ball were less heavy while the contact with the ball and between the players was sharper. The response was better!
    ● Physics of players. The players were knocked off their feet after strong shots
    ● Free kicks. Free-kicks and penalty kicks were less predictable. Return that system to the game!
    Other
    ● Edit mode: complete editor of shoes (including creation);Full editor of stadiums (including the creation).
    ●Match settings. Snow, attendance, the selection of referees, the Selection of TV popups, two-legged encounter with “away goal” rule.
    ●Visual effects: Snow. Players breathing in the winter and cloudy weather. Ability to change the color of net depending on home team. The fan-sector (both at home and away!). More camera flashes during the game! Realistic sky!
    ● Interface: the Ability to remove the radar. Lesser amount of load screens. “Substitution option” and “Exit to Windows” in the Pause menu. Chat in online match with standard phrases, which can be optionally changed!
    ● Modes: Penalty mode, Random selection match Mode, Community match Mode. Return auto-motion function in BaL mode. Return 1-2 Pass and Shoot drill to Practice Mode. The challenges in Practice Mode. Return Data Recording Interval to Practice Mode.
    ● Game plan. More slots for different tactics and formations
    ● Sound effects. The sound of rain!



    It’s silly to deny that competition is the engine of progress. So we can’t ignore the advantages of Pes competitor gameplay, and maybe we should try to implement them properly in our game! Because football is one for all..

    What are the features of FIFA gameplay?
    Why not to pay attention to the strengths of the PES competitor and in the near future implement its features in PES gameplay? We submit the dignities of FIFA gameplay. Please take note of this material when develop PES 2017.

    The following materials were used while writing this section:
    FIFA 14
    FIFA 15
    PES 2015
    PES 2016 gameplay video

    ● Ball physics. The flight of the ball is different after the impact with different parts of the foot as well as its further rotation. The ball is not scripted. The ball is not glued to player when two players fight for the ball, the ball has its own life. When a player takes bad shot the ball may fall from the foot and fly differently than good shot
    ● AI/animation.One touch game, interaction between players, various animations of these interactions.
    ● Stamina.It really affects the gameplay (the player who is tired, can't do the same actions as the player with the full stamina).
    ● AI/Defence. Players either hold the line or mark players on higher difficulty levels. Central defenders play as they should play and cover dangerous zones, they interrupt long crosses. Defensive line influencing the course of dangerous moments of the opponent offline not under manual control in a tangle, trying to take the ball away from hitters, there are a lot of animations)
    ● Passes. Not scripted controll of the ball between players, more variable passes and their various animations.
    ● Goalkeepers. Goalkeepers action on the goal line, reflexes, the AI goalies at higher difficulty levels.
    ● Game plan. A change of tactics affect the gameplay - when choosing different tactics the team tries to adapt to them(there are various changes in the lineup on attack or defense).
    ●Crosses. The long and short crosses, further ball actions .
    ● Players skills. The players handle the ball differently depending on their skill, there is possible bounce off the player and mistakes in handling of the ball.
    ● Shots. Various shots and animations. Lead- leg shots differ from weak- leg shots.
    ● Controls. The ability to make pressing by 2 or 3 players who really impose tackling. The defenders in custody against a striker a lot of the freedom struggle and animations for this. There are dynamic canopies, the player performing the canopy without stopping takes the ball into the penalty area(there are lots of animations).Special techniques that really help in the process of constructing a threat of attack or the subsequent play on the field.Attack with a pass on third (in attack is always present connecting the player, lots of animation drawing the ball around the penalty)
    ● Aerial game. There is a chance for every player to win the ball in aerial fight. A player can win aerial ball while struggling during the jump. Ability to jump for a ball with two or more players.
    ● Broadcasting. Seamless gameplay.



    It’s certainly that top football analysts and coaches were engaged in development of Football manager. We would like to believe that you’ll do the same and make Game plan and Team management far better.

    What worth borrowing from Football Manager?
    The younger brothers of footsims are football managers! There are some interesting features that would be nice to integrate in PES, isn’t it? Please take note of this material when develop PES 2017.

    The following materials were used while writing this section
    Football Manager 2015
    PES 2015
    PES 2016 gameplay video

    ● individual instructions for players under AI control ("play short/long pass", "more/less dribbling", "move to position/hold", "to press/to stand still", "aggressive tackling/to step back);
    ● individual instructions on defence;
    ● graphical display of players attributes ( borrow completely from FM);
    ● identifying the key attributes of a football player for a particular position;
    ● quick substitutions without exiting to pause menu;
    ● ability to switch positions during the match;
    ● computer models of players in the "game plan";
    ● filter of players in the "game plan" in terms of overall/shape/mood;
    ● the separation of the players attributes on technical, mental, physical;
    ● real players stats for previous periods.



    Some innovative offers gameplay for PES 2017
    To tell you in secret - at the end of September, we will publish an article for you about what innovations fans from around the world would like to see in PES 2017! This article is already being prepared and we offer a piece of it right now! Please, take note of this material when develop PES 2017

    The following materials were used while writing this section:
    Real football broadcasting
    PES 2014, PES 2015,
    PES 2016 gameplay video

    ● the ability to specify the location of the players on the free kicks;
    ● the ability to control the fall of the player (see – FlatOut 1);
    ● continuous broadcasting. Players should not teleport at their default positions after black screen at the transition between episodes!;
    ● the ability to save presets of tactics in training mode and activate them in the match!;
    ● card to the player after the number of fouls!;
    ● the ability to hit the ball into a striker when kicking the ball by the keeper!;
    ● intelligent AI coach: Select the starting lineup based on the opponent, change his team during the match depending on the opponent, tactical substitutions, etc.;
    ● adjustment of the number of players in the wall and adjust its location to the left and right!;
    ● Free kicks – the ability to move the player relatively to the ball! The farther he stand, the stronger the shot, etc.;
    ● super-cancel by default!;
    ● teams must use their strengths!;
    ● fatigue should greatly affect the player. The players shouldn’t run over the field holding sprint button, they should wisely use the energy of their footballers. Restoration of stamina after a long sprint!;
    ● Add items, identifying one or another championship. In particular: TV popups (fictional, like in PES 6), referees from different countries (fictional, like in PES 6), stadiums of one country (with the possibility of creating new ones), the soundtrack etc.


    Epilogue
    Asim: «There is clear difference between shots too, with the ball moving around a bit more. This means not every shot you hit will hit the target, even when you're unleashing a shot close to the goal. Early on, there'll be an adjustment period, but a few games and you'll figure out how it works».
    PES Russia: «Asim, we don’t want to figure out how it works there. Large army of fans of the series still doesn't understand how developers could implement so variable and interesting gameplay in retro-versions of PES. The outcome of episodes was unpredictable! We still don't understand how it works there and how that randomization was achieved! There was not a sense of déjà vu, as it is now! We still want to run that games again and again, because every match is unique! We think it is because the movement of players and the ball was not scripted so much! Now, it’s impossible to perform the next action until previous animation isn’t over! Even the games against AI were interesting because AI sometimes made mistakes and it looked like the human factor!! There was a feeling that you play not against the AI/robot but against a person, who is able to get nervous and make mistakes! This is a significant advantage when playing offline and online!»


    Conclusion, appeal to developers
    You probably have the impression that we don’t see any advantages in the game. But this is not so. The official announcement of the game as well as reviews of playtesters from E3 told us about the many advantages of the new gameplay. However we understand that it was very difficult for playtesters to objectively evaluate the pros and cons of the game in a very short period of time. That's why we made this article, to identify all the POSSIBLE flaws of gameplay. We worked on this article not for a week or two. It took us a month to complete it. Multiple views of different videos, communication with fans, gathering and analysis of the information, conversion from large number of thoughts into paragraphs, the translation of text, the publication of articles on numerous PES forums - this is only a small part of what we’ve done on the way to this article! If we see that we bring benefits, we will continue to act! Let us know about it! Sincerely, the Russian community of fans of the Pro Evolution Soccer series!


    Dear administrators! Will be grateful if this article will get your approval and will be posted on the home page of your site in news feed!

    Dear fans! We urge those who agree with one or another disadvantage of gameplay mentioned in the article, not to remain indifferent and to let the developers know about it!

    Dear developers! Please take comments on the gameplay into account and pay attention to them when developing official patches PES 2016 and during development of PES 2017! And please, devote more time for feedback from the fans. They always have what to tell.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PES Russia For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    nesa24 nesa24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    S.S. Lazio
    Posts
    8,619

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    sumarum poznatih stvari i potencijalnih zelja
    normalni clanci kad prodje zabrana a to je za 10ak dana

  8. #5
    Počasni Diskriminator Darcoolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Karaburma
    Posts
    15,937

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    Po meni čista nebuloza, praktično analiza gejmplej klipova.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Darcoolio For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Top Player Loki87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Nis
    Steam ID:
    SerbianLoki87
    Posts
    825

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    Svaka cast coveku sto se potrudio, odradio je odlican posao. Nebuloza je osporavati ovo sto je izneo. Mnoge stvari koje je naveo su prosle totalno nezapazene u svim ostalim analizam, iako neke stvari su poprilicno "stare mane" pes-a.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Loki87 For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Počasni Diskriminator Darcoolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Karaburma
    Posts
    15,937

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    Radio je analizu klipova na osnovu gejmpleja i igre koji je još 2x dorađena za nadolazeći sajam igara.
    Na evo web su to najavljivali kao eskluzivu.

  13. #8
    Regular VajgadonnaDalabonna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    at the end of the hippocampus
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    It is ""unclear"" why the overall rating of a player suddenly drops sharply when you put him on unfamiliar position. The player takes the same passes and shots, he never loses speed and he’s still dangerous....
    posle ove izjave..dzaba mu sva pisanija..

  14. #9
    Top Player Loki87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Nis
    Steam ID:
    SerbianLoki87
    Posts
    825

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    Radio je analizu na osnovu onoga sto je dostupno, i sve da je jos 7x dorade ostace propusti. Situacija koju je prikazao gore na mecu Brazil - Nemacka je izuzetno zanimljiva i neznam da sam naletio negde da je neko to analizirao, gde pokazuje kako se odbrana ponekada konfuzno ponasa, cak i kada su to igraci sa vrhunskim ocenama. Isto tako sam primetio da ponekada kada protivnicki golman ispucava odbrana ostane pomerena u jednu stranu, ostavljajuci protivnickog igraca potpuno samog na drugoj strani. Stvari poput tih, kao i onih kada moj igrac previse sporo ide prema lopti a saban sa druge strane koji je 10 puta dalje me prestigne i uz to mi obori igraca, verovatno nece biti popravljen i doradjene. To se provlaci ceo ovaj serijal i da ih mogu tako lako popraviti verovatno bi uradili, tako na osnovu ovoga sto je covek postavio, vidimo da je paznja opet negde drugde usmerena. I sada samo reci zasto je nebuloza njegovo post ?? Takodje problemi kod ukopavanja igraca kada protivnik ne pusta r2 su stvari koje su us*ali ovaj pes. Naravno r2 u ovome pes-u je ostavio trag, uz pomoc toga ocene igraca su zanemarene, dal' u pitanju bio pas ili sut. Sudijske naklonost velikim igracima prenaglasena, u nekim situacijama i klizeci sa ledja samo sa zutim prodje, a u nekim ni faul ne bude. Podrzavam trud da se ubace face, vreme i sve ostalo, ali primarno je da se isprave glposti u igri.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Loki87 For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Super Moderator pilojac85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Steam ID:
    pilojac85
    Posts
    1,942

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    Quote Originally Posted by VajgadonnaDalabonna View Post
    It is ""unclear"" why the overall rating of a player suddenly drops sharply when you put him on unfamiliar position. The player takes the same passes and shots, he never loses speed and he’s still dangerous....
    posle ove izjave..dzaba mu sva pisanija..
    VD jesi testirao to ? Probaj staviti CR-a na golmana pa trci sa njim. Nisam merio ali cini mi se da je isto brz kao i na svojoj prirodnoj poziciji. To sto mu padne overal ocena je samo odraz njegovih sposobnosti da igra na toj poziciji. Na primer za odbranu ti treba defensive prowess, ball wining, positioning, covering itd. Kad prebacis CR-a na primer na poziciju CB-a onda ce mu u overal ici te ocene koje su bitne za defanzivu a ne attacking prowess, finishing itd. Fizicke ocene ostaju nepromenjene. Nisam testirao i nemam tacne podatke da ti iznesem ali mi tako izgleda.

    Edit: Aha, verovatno si sugerisao u fazonu "Sta im tu nije jasno"

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki87 View Post
    Isto tako sam primetio da ponekada kada protivnicki golman ispucava odbrana ostane pomerena u jednu stranu, ostavljajuci protivnickog igraca potpuno samog na drugoj strani.
    I meni to ide na q, ali sam primetio da se to desava uglavnom kod ljudi koji igraju fluid. Valjda se pogube igraci pri tom prelazu iz formacije sa loptom u formaciju bez lopte. Isto tako kad igras formaciju koja ima spoljne bekove (RB i LB) u fazi odbrane ako te protivnik napada kroz sredinu onda ti bekovi kuliraju sami uz aut liniju. Uopste ne ucestvuju u fazi odbrane, ne skupljaju unutra koliko god ih ti pomerio i koliko god ih sabio slajderima. 90% igraca cepa kroz sredinu kad napada i onda su takve formacije sa spoljnim bekovima prakticno beskorisne. Cak im stavim da budu CB u fazi odbrane i opet ne vredi, ostanu siroko i stoje tu.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to pilojac85 For This Useful Post:


  18. #11

    Default Re: PES 2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-In-One [ENG]

    @PES_Russia: [NEW] #PES2016: Is gameplay perfect? All-in-One
    Read more: http://bit.ly/1JszKWR
    @Adam_Bhatti: No idea why you would ask that, I have told you repeatedly not to send anything until you have played. You ignore me. Goodbye.

    @PES_Russia: You claim that it is impossible to judge about the game without playing it. Although you judge about our article perhaps without even reading it completely. The POSSIBLE shortcomings of the game are identified in the article. In addition many of them supported by examples on the video and on the screenshots. We have provided you with facts, but we receive only words from you. Why then do you accept all the positive reviews from the fans who just watched the video. They didn't "play the game" either. Is it that hard to take note of some of the listed actual problems (at the discretion of developers)? Here are the statements from the article..Goodbye.

    @Adam_Bhatti: That's a very rude, and single minded response. It upsets me how you try to twist things against the people making the game. We try to work with you, but you refuse to listen to us. Take care, and thanks for your passion.

    SOURCE: https://twitter.com/PES_Russia/statu...77376045297665

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Pes 2013 option file for season 2016
    By minosta in forum PES 2013 - Patchevi
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-26-2016, 18:37
  2. PES 2016 original - nastavljamo saradnju
    By Mihajlodc in forum PES 2016 - General
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 02-11-2016, 11:35
  3. PES 2016 E3 gameplay
    By maremas in forum PES 2015 - General
    Replies: 460
    Last Post: 08-05-2015, 09:17
  4. Novi prvoligasi u eng, fra, nje, spa i italiji
    By Funjai in forum PES 6 - Edit
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-01-2008, 18:34

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •